Comments on: well, gee, would you look at the date… http://www.ockle.org/blog/2005/04/25/well-gee-would-you-look-at-the-date Martin's Minddump. Mindfield. Data Minding. Whatever. Thu, 25 Dec 2008 04:47:04 -0200 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: david http://www.ockle.org/blog/2005/04/25/well-gee-would-you-look-at-the-date/comment-page-1#comment-8 david Tue, 10 May 2005 13:29:00 +0000 http://www.ockle.org/wordpress/?p=37#comment-8 Or more originally:<BR/><BR/>http://homepage.mac.com/bmulligan/classics/latinlyric2003/texts/Hor.carm.3.2.pdf Or more originally:

http://homepage.mac.com/bmulligan/classics/latinlyric2003/texts/Hor.carm.3.2.pdf

]]> By: David Kellam http://www.ockle.org/blog/2005/04/25/well-gee-would-you-look-at-the-date/comment-page-1#comment-7 David Kellam Tue, 10 May 2005 13:26:00 +0000 http://www.ockle.org/wordpress/?p=37#comment-7 We are in agreement then :P<BR/><BR/>Perhaps an initial misinterpretation/lack of clarification...<BR/><BR/>Ne'er a truer word were spoken:<BR/>My friend, you would not tell with such high zest<BR/>To children ardent for some desperate glory,<BR/>The old lie: Dulce et decorum est<BR/>Pro patria mori. We are in agreement then :P

Perhaps an initial misinterpretation/lack of clarification…

Ne’er a truer word were spoken:
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

]]> By: Martin http://www.ockle.org/blog/2005/04/25/well-gee-would-you-look-at-the-date/comment-page-1#comment-6 Martin Tue, 10 May 2005 12:34:00 +0000 http://www.ockle.org/wordpress/?p=37#comment-6 Hmmm "Lest We Forget" is an interesting one... because if there is a point to Australia's (what seems like) endless holidays in honour of wars we've fought in, then it should be to say, "well, here we are, remembering, lest we forget how horrible war is"; rather than (as seems to be constantly shoved down our throats) "hooray, lest we forget that people died to preserve our freedom" (what a terrible American cliche) "and let's all promise to each other that we would in a heartbeat die to save Australia's freedom ourselves"... as if Australia's freedom is, or has ever been, in any danger at all from anyone except the incompetent arse-lickers in Canberra intent on using anything they can get their hands on as an excuse to curb our freedoms, increase their power, and generally improve the financial prospects of the Kerry Packers of this world...<BR/><BR/>Particularly when none of the wars we celebrate (with, at a large stretch, the exception of the second world war) actually had any influence, potential or actual, on Australia. Particularly when Australians were only ever dispendable cannon-fodder for at first the British and later the Americans.<BR/><BR/>pah.<BR/><BR/>(and boo to you, for awakening the bitter, angry cynic in me :-P)<BR/><BR/>To set the record straight, I have deep respect for the experiences of any man or woman of any nation who has seen combat. I have no problem with honouring veterans, nor with memorial days. However, I do think the focus of any "celebration" (for want of a better word) should be mourning, not idolising the dead; respecting, rather than congratulating the surviving veterans; and commemorating the end of a war, rather than gloating over a victory.<BR/><BR/>The bitter, angry cynic in me finds solace in the fact that many high-profile surviving veterans share this opinion. Hmmm “Lest We Forget” is an interesting one… because if there is a point to Australia’s (what seems like) endless holidays in honour of wars we’ve fought in, then it should be to say, “well, here we are, remembering, lest we forget how horrible war is”; rather than (as seems to be constantly shoved down our throats) “hooray, lest we forget that people died to preserve our freedom” (what a terrible American cliche) “and let’s all promise to each other that we would in a heartbeat die to save Australia’s freedom ourselves”… as if Australia’s freedom is, or has ever been, in any danger at all from anyone except the incompetent arse-lickers in Canberra intent on using anything they can get their hands on as an excuse to curb our freedoms, increase their power, and generally improve the financial prospects of the Kerry Packers of this world…

Particularly when none of the wars we celebrate (with, at a large stretch, the exception of the second world war) actually had any influence, potential or actual, on Australia. Particularly when Australians were only ever dispendable cannon-fodder for at first the British and later the Americans.

pah.

(and boo to you, for awakening the bitter, angry cynic in me :-P )

To set the record straight, I have deep respect for the experiences of any man or woman of any nation who has seen combat. I have no problem with honouring veterans, nor with memorial days. However, I do think the focus of any “celebration” (for want of a better word) should be mourning, not idolising the dead; respecting, rather than congratulating the surviving veterans; and commemorating the end of a war, rather than gloating over a victory.

The bitter, angry cynic in me finds solace in the fact that many high-profile surviving veterans share this opinion.

]]> By: David Kellam http://www.ockle.org/blog/2005/04/25/well-gee-would-you-look-at-the-date/comment-page-1#comment-5 David Kellam Fri, 29 Apr 2005 03:41:00 +0000 http://www.ockle.org/wordpress/?p=37#comment-5 Martin,<BR/><BR/>I agree with your post on what it takes to be a gentleman. I haven't really stopped to think about it all at once recently (only piecemeal).<BR/><BR/>As for what's the point of ANZAC day, I would have to disagree. I think the "Lest We Forget" motto is a worthy one to live by (despite its original origins as an outcry against self-glorification in the wake of war (Kipling)).<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, the implementation and politics thereof can be disappointing. For example, until recently not allowing family members to march in the colours of lost ones (iirc), the outcry over the Turkish inclusion this year, etc.<BR/><BR/>But anyway, I too am procrastinating ;-) Martin,

I agree with your post on what it takes to be a gentleman. I haven’t really stopped to think about it all at once recently (only piecemeal).

As for what’s the point of ANZAC day, I would have to disagree. I think the “Lest We Forget” motto is a worthy one to live by (despite its original origins as an outcry against self-glorification in the wake of war (Kipling)).

Unfortunately, the implementation and politics thereof can be disappointing. For example, until recently not allowing family members to march in the colours of lost ones (IIRC), the outcry over the Turkish inclusion this year, etc.

But anyway, I too am procrastinating ;-)

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